The proposed Guidance, published last month, excludes consideration of assessment. Recommendations are therefore built on sand. Depression can occur in a variety of contexts and alongside other disorders, NICE’s response is that it doesn’t matter so long as there is a high score on a depression psychometric test. The clinician, not the client holds the menu, the former takes them through the options in a set order. For ‘less severe’ depression group CBT is to be canvassed first with clients, next in line is group behavioural activation. Despite the fact that the latter group modality has not been assessed with blind independent assessors.
NICE advocates different pathways for ‘less’ and ‘more severe’ depression, advocating a cut-off of 16 on the PHQ-9. De facto the authors rubber-stamp the widely held practice, reflected in the Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) Service, of routing high scorers on a depression psychometric test (e.g PHQ-9 score 10 or greater) to treatment for this condition. But patients with a wide range of disorders including, panic disorder, PTSD, obsessive compulsive disorder and adjustment disorder have elevated depression scores. Nevertheless, NICE signals a diversion along a depression pathway with one fork for ‘less severe’ and another for the ‘more severe’. Clinicians and clients are likely to be equally bemused by the ‘road signs’. The upshot is likely to be misguided treatment.NICE have invited the public to Comment on their intended guidance https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/indevelopment/gid-cgwave0725/consultation/html-content-3 on the treatment of depression. Commentary has to be submitted specifying the particular paragraph that any comment is about, so it is somewhat tedious, and you may well decide to write your Christmas cards instead.
Generalising from Low Quality Studies
In assessing the outcome studies NICE do not take seriously the concept of minimally important difference (MID) i.e what change would a a patient see as the minimum requirement necessary for them to say treatment has made a real-world difference. There is no evidence that they would regard a change of score on a psychometric test as conferring a real-world difference. But they would recognise being back to their old self or best functioning and possibly no longer suffering from the disorder, so that loss of diagnostic status would be a reasonable proxy for a MID. However only a minority of studies furnish this data with the use of blind assessors. Inferences can therefore only be properly drawn from this sub-population of studies, which exclude the low intensity studies. As an exemplar see the comparison of group CBT and group behavioural activation at the end of this document.
Pseudo-preferences
Under the proposed Guidance client’s preferences are paramount. If the client is judged as having ‘less severe’ depression and volunteers no treatment preference, they are to be taken through a menu of options in a set order starting with first group cognitive behavioural therapy, second group behaviour activation, third individual CBT and on to the 11th option short-term psychodynamic therapy. For ‘more severe’ depression top of the league is individual CBT plus antidepressants, in 2nd place individual CBT, and in 3rd place individual behavioural activation and in last and 10th place is group excercise. The ‘more severe’ route is more labour intensive and there is likely to be congestion as approximately half those entering IAPT have mean scores of 15 or more on the PHQ-9 [Saunders et al (2020) https://doi.org/10.1017/S1754470X20000173]. Unwittingly the Guidance spells the end of low intensity interventions because none of the top of the league options are low intensity! But 70% of clients entering the IAPT service are given a low intensity intervention first. However there is nothing to prevent a Service Provider declaring that ‘unfortunately none of the top of the league options are currently available’ and recourse has to be made to options in danger of relegation.
Psychometric Test Results Can only be Considered in Context
The NICE guidance assumes that psychometric test results speak for themselves but they are only meaningful when described in context. To my knowledge there is no study of the reliability of the PHQ-9 in UK routine mental health services compared to a ‘gold standard’ diagnostic interview. Rather data on the PHQ-9 has been extrapolated from from US studies of psychiatric outpatients, in a population with a high prevalence of depression, but not using a ‘gold standard’ diagnostic interview [The Prime MD was used instead, with insufficient distinction between this interview and the questions on the PHQ-9]. It is the author’s experience that in the UK the PHQ-9 gives a large number of false positives compared to a reliable diagnostic interview, such as the SCID.
The Need to Contextualise Outcome Studies
NICE has a ‘blind spot’ about context. In its’ analysis of outcome studies it lumps together ‘depression studies’ that were wholly reliant on self-report measures with those that included the results of a diagnostic interview as an outcome measure. Outcome is assessed in terms of statistical differences between either different modes of service delivery e.g stepped v non-stepped or between different treatments e.g CBT v waiting list. There was no attempt to try and discern what proportion of clients in each arm of a study would have regarded themselves as back to their normal selves or best functioning post treatment [ or in lieu of this, lost their diagnostic status] and the duration of those gains. Rather than patients being asked to cite preferences over treatments they largely have no knowledge of, they would be very interested as to the likelihood of treatment making a real-world difference to their lives i.e a difference that they would care about.
The Need to Consider Effectiveness Studies Not Just Efficacy Studies
NICE’s failure to look at context is highlighted in the top league place it gives to group CBT for less severe depression. No mention that in our study [Scott and Stradling (1990)https://doi.org/10.1017/S014134730001795X ] of individual and group CBT for depression in Toxteth, Liverpool the invitation to group CBT went down like a ‘lead balloon’ and we had to change the protocol to include up to 3 individual sessions in the ‘group’ arm. Entry was determined by independent diagnostic interview, but mean entry Beck Depression scores were around 28, so the population was likely ‘more severe’ in NICE terms. NICE also fails to critically appraise the Group Behavioural Activation studies, having previously called for BA studies to include observer rated assessments. They may have also added the need for credible attention control comparisons. NICE is content with statistical sweeps at large data sets rather trying to discern what is happening at the coal face.
Ignoring the Pandemic
NICE puts group interventions as top of the league for less severe depression, but ignores the context of the pandemic, realistically how possible will it be two get 2 therapists together with 8 clients for 90 minutes a week for 8 weeks, all face to face. with masks? The logistics and effectiveness of conducting it online is a venture into the unknown. NICE appears to operate without contextualisation of findings.
Failing to Pay Attention to the Detail of Group Interventions
In 2019 Kellett et al published a paper in Behavior Therapy, 50 (2019) 864–885 the abstract advocates Group Behavioral Activation for depression as a front line treatment. The abstract also claims a moderate to large effect on depressive symptoms. NICE appears not to have read further than the abstract, but closer inspection reveals the conclusions are deeply flawed.
In passing the abstract mentions that the standardized mean difference (SMD) between group BA and waiting list was 0.72. This would cause few people to question the findings, but actually it means the results are of doubtful clinical relevance, as it actually means there is less than one standard deviation in outcome between the treated group and the waiting list. If a group of depressed patients had a mean Beck Depression Inventory Score of 28 at the start of treatment, [assuming that the spread of the results was 7, the standard deviation – taken from the Scott and Stradling (1990) study Behavioural Psychotherapy, 18, 1-19 ] a mean score of 23 at the end of treatment would produce an SMD of 0.71, i.e about the same as in the University of Sheffield analysis. Thus the average person experiencing this change of score is unlikely to feel that they are back to their normal selves, and are likely to view it as part of the normal cycling of mood, influenced by positive events e.g the company/support of fellow sufferers for a time in a group. In none of the Group BA studies was there an independent assessor determining whether clients were still depressed or the permanence of any change. Unsurprisingly the authors found that the Group BA was no better than any other active treatment (i.e controlling for attention and expectation), and make an implicit plea for the Dodo verdict ‘all therapies are equal and must have prizes’.
In the body of the BA paper the authors acknowledge that the Group BA studies are of low quality, save one and that analyses were on treatment completers as opposed to the more rigorous intention to treat. But there is no indication anywhere as to what proportion of people recover from depression with any permanence.
In 1990 Steve Stradling and I had published [Behavioural Psychotherapy, 18, 1-19] a study of depressed clients comparing, group CBT, individual CBT and a waiting list condition. For Group CBT the initial mean BDI was 29.0 and end of treatment score was 6.2 whilst for individual treatment the comparable scores were 28.21 and 11.53. However those on the waiting list also improved from 25.89 initially to 20.26 at the end of waiting list. Thus, it is far from clear that the results from the University of Sheffield analysis on Group BA are actually better than those of putting people on a waiting list.
Dr Mike Scott
55 replies on “New NICE Menu for Depression”
‘Thus, it is far from clear that the results from the University of Sheffield analysis on Group BA are actually better than those of putting people on a waiting list’
In reality sitting on a waiting list will be most of the ‘treatment’ on offer.
I wonder when we will move on from medicalising and internalising our myriad cultural disorders causing so much distress and seek to make the world a better place?.
Perhaps this is impossible while there is so much self and vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
Those in power have invested billions in these systems, IAPT etc and i’m sure they will always support an industry that largely helps to turn our world into ‘triggers’ for some voted into existence, unreliable and unscientific personal disorder.
‘Treatment’ in these toxic contexts are really about loading each person with responsibly to simply get on with being shat on from on high and accept the status quo as inevitable – ‘it is what is is’ – until it isn’t of course.
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이 순간 그의 권위는 흔들렸다.
qiyezp.com
그는 심지어 자신이 해적들을 과소평가했다고 느꼈습니다.
donmhomes.com
このブログのファンになりました!素晴らしい情報源です。
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Xu Jing은 절을했습니다. “부끄럽습니다. 저는 제 의무를 성실히 수행했습니다!”
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삶에 대한 욕심과 죽음이 두려운 두 형제가 아직도 그토록 원대한 야망을 품고 있단 말인가?
프라그마틱 무료
Liu Jian은 책상에 있었고 눈을 약간 들어 펜을 내려 놓고 “무슨 일이야? “라고 말했습니다.
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바다 위를 정처없이 맴돌고 있는 왕.
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Akeyol은 진지하게 말했습니다. “나는 신에게 맹세합니다 …”
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하지만… 오늘… 진실이 밝혀졌고 모든 의심이 갑자기 명확해졌습니다.
k8 オンカジ
このブログを読むたびに、何か新しいことを学べます。感謝しています。
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Fang Jinglong은 의심을 피하지 않고 매일 그를 즐겁게했습니다.
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갑자기 Li Chaowen도 많은 사람들의 웃음을 끌었습니다.
마종 웨이즈
Hongzhi 황제는 눈을 들었지만 Zhu Houzhao의 순진한 얼굴을 보았습니다.
에그벳 주소
“…” 많은 사람들의 입꼬리가 다시 뭉쳤다.
북 오브 데드
Liu Jian은 “폐하께서 좋은 왕자를 낳았습니다!”라고 말했습니다.
EGGC
내 모든 분노를 불길로 바꾸고 Fang Jifan을 재로 태울 수 있으면 정말 좋겠습니다.
더 트위티 하우스
이것은 완전히 오랫동안 계획되고 매우 세심한 군사 계획입니다.
문 프린세스
Xu Jing은 “집에 가십시오”라는 단어를 들었을 때 어쩔 수없이 다시 목이 막혔습니다.
5 래빗스 메가웨이즈
Fang Jifan은 오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오오 허허.
라이즈 오브 올림푸스 100
“감자죽으로 만들어도 될까요? 고구마죽처럼요?”
슬롯 머신 사이트
Hongzhi 황제는 기념비를 가리키며 “이 검열, 그의 세부 사항을 확인하십시오 …”
카지노 슬롯 머신
모두 정시에 바쁘게 시작했습니다.
메이저 슬롯 사이트
이제 두 배의 월간 패스, 두 배의 지원, 지원합니다.
r 슬롯
그는 Fang Jifan을 분개하게 쳐다 보았고 Fang Jifan은 그것을 보지 않는 척 고개를 숙였습니다.
맥심 슬롯
Ouyang Zhi는 잠시 침묵했습니다. “폐하, 쌍안경을 사용하지 않는 것이 좋습니다.”
슬롯 무료 사이트
Wang Bushi는 평소처럼 근무했습니다. 날씨가 고요하고 아무 일도 일어나지 않는 것 같았습니다.
EGGC
그러나 Ma Wensheng은 “Zhang Yan, 돌아와”라고 날카롭게 외쳤다.
월드 슬롯
심지어… 황실이 거지들을 체포하기 시작하면.
블랙 맘바
돼지를 키우다… 남들에게 비웃음을 샀지만 그는 남다른 길을 발견했다.
맥심 슬롯
속이는 것은 아무리 화려해도 결국 생명력이 없습니다.오! 그들이 아직 결혼하지 않았다는 사실이 밝혀지는 것은 놀라운 일이 아닙니다.
미스터 플레이 슬롯
이 의대생들은 손을 얹는 것뿐만 아니라 임상 실습도 한다.
슬롯 5 만
이동양은 눈을 떼지 않고 몰래 고개를 끄덕였다.
슬롯 게임 사이트
Fang Jifan은 의롭게 말했습니다. “폐하, 제 아들과 신하의 머리는 보장됩니다.”
월드 슬롯
갑자기 많은 사람들이 속속 창밖을 내다보았다.
cab 토토
Fang Jifan은 약간 당황했고 Zhu Zaimo를 노려 볼 수밖에 없었습니다.
슬롯 무료 스핀
이로 인해 Baoding Mansion의 서문이되었습니다.
아이 슬롯
물론 그는 Great Harmony의 승리가 황실에 큰 이익이 될 것이라는 것을 알고 있었습니다.
아시아 슬롯
수도에서는 그 소식이 나오자마자 많은 사람들이 안타까운 표정을 지었다.
슬롯 킹
Zhang Yanling은 도울 수 없었지만 “이해할 수 있습니까? “라고 말했습니다.
무료 프라그마틱
수만 명의 명나라 군대가 병거 사이에 모여 마지막 준비를 했습니다.
에그벳
어느 시점에서 Wang Shouren은 Fang Jifan 옆에 서있었습니다.
토토 커뮤니티 사이트
그들은 실제로 보병 연대를 완전히 수송했습니다.그들은 마음속으로 엇갈린 감정으로 Zhu Houzhao를 바라보았다.
미스터 플레이 슬롯
Wang Bushi는 고개를 끄덕이고 침착하게 말했습니다. “아, 빨리 저장하세요.”
트리플 슬롯
일곱 쪽 첩은 모두 공주를 낳았다.
토토 베트맨
오랫동안 집에 없었던 Fang Jinglong은 Fang Tianci를 먼저 만나기 위해 뒷집으로 갔다.
슬롯 무료
왕아오의 표정이 얼어붙었고, 그는 즉시 슬퍼 보였다.
퀵 슬롯
거리 한가운데에 이르자 손님들이 속속 쏟아져 나왔다.
축구 배팅 사이트
앵무새밖에 모르는 웬쑤첸에 비하면 그리 똑똑하지 않다.
프라그마틱 게임
그렇게 말하자 Zhu Houzhao는 불행한 표정으로 이를 갈기 시작했습니다.
프라그마틱 정품
시간이 얼마나 걸렸는지 모르겠지만 Fang Jifan은 열광했습니다.
라이즈 오브 올림푸스 100
Fang Jifan은 매우 기뻐했습니다. “예, 예, Liu 씨의 호의를 받으신 것은 행운입니다.”
버팔로 킹 슬롯
Hongzhi 황제는 “Zhu Shou가 무대에 있습니다. “라고 무관심하게 말했습니다.
슬롯 온라인
대신 Zhang Sheng은 청지기를 끌어 당겼습니다. “가지마, 가지마.”
터보 슬롯
외부의 대부분의 학자들도 Tang Yin이 도제에 가지 않을 것이라고 생각했습니다.